Should Catholics Try to Convert Protestants?

Not having this is a big deal

Yes.

"But didn't you say that non-Catholics could still go to heaven?"

Yes.

"But doesn't that, like, totally blow up your motivation for converting Protestants?"

No.

"Why?"

Because my previous post was not about Protestants who reject the Church, nor did it say that Protestantism had the fullness of the means of salvation. I mean what is Protestantism, even? Nevertheless and furthermore, my post affirmed implicitly that Protestants like those in Geneva (who received frequent visits from St. Francis de Sales) mortally sinned, being fully aware of "who" the Catholic Church was and is.

"Well then why convert to Catholicism, since it is so messy? Why not just go on in ignorance?"

Accidental ignorance is different than willful ignorance. I cannot simply desire my way to not know something that I already know. Hence, the point of my disclaimer at the end of the last post. Also, salvation is a mystery in the soul. Only God knows what knowledge for which each soul must give an account. What my previous post assumed is the validity of implicit faith, and that doctrine in no way should discourage our missionary efforts.

Last but not least, the mind of the Church on this matter must be considered in light of the Protestant who -- like myself -- was born into a tradition with a sincere love for Christ, who received a valid baptism, and who did not openly, explicitly, willfully or even knowingly reject the Catholic Church. In fact, as soon as I realized what the Catholic Church claimed of Herself -- temporarily by God's grace dispossessed of the chimeras and caricatures of the Church -- I studied and prayed my way into communion with Her. I get it. To know what the Church is and to think you can "follow Christ" and not enter into Her womb is mockery. It is a form of atheism. It is to believe in a God you make up for yourself. It is a Christ of convenience.

"So then why share the faith with our separated brothers and sisters, why not let them go on in ignorance?"

Such an attitude assumes that the particular separated brother or sister you are "protecting" from the Catholic faith will in fact persevere to the end. However, that notion itself is against our faith. We must share our faith, because our faith demands that we share it! We leave God to decide who goes where. It is simply our job to tell the good news.

Jesus died for you and left you His Church -- for which even the gates of hell cannot conquer!

Alleluia!

From the Combox...Will We Grow Apart if I Convert?

In response to my last combox question, it was expressed to me by Mrs. Anonymous that she was afraid that if she became Catholic she would grow apart from her husband.

That's a fair and honest concern.

In fact, I'm pleased that she is concerned about growing apart from her husband. Anytime a spouse learns anything new, does anything new, etc., it can be an opportunity for distance to grow in a relationship. My wife and I have a vow to never keep any secrets from each other. If someone tells us something, that person has to understand that they have told the opposite spouse. Why? Because when you keep places of your heart hidden from your spouse, those places of your heart act like a tether let out. Gradually over time, spouses can grow a part. Soon, and you never even realized it happened, you have A LOT of secrets you do not tell your spouse about. Maybe you have an entire life that you are living, and he or she is not a part of it. Not good.

RED FLAG

As I've said before, a conversion to Catholicism won't heal a marriage where communication is not wide-open. Does her husband know about her reading my blog? If not, she should tell him. Now. This cannot be a secret indulgence, it will only possibly cause pain later. In marriage, asking for forgiveness afterwards is never the right strategy.

Nonetheless, an important part of marriage is communication and acceptance. In this case, her husband is a Christian. Unless he has communicated directly that he thinks the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon, is unwilling to find out if that is true or not, and is committed to keeping his anti-pope flag hung up in his room, then I think she can still proceed with prayerful caution. (I don't guess she is asking that the papal flag be hung over their canopy bed.)

YELLOW FLAG

Thus, caution and prayer is key. If God is taking her on this spiritual journey, He wants to include her husband in some way. I am not saying this as some kind of prophet but rather by just exercising the intuitive spiritual muscle of common sense. She is one-flesh with her husband. As such, God moves in and through each spouse individually for the benefit of the other. As spouses, speaking in the first person, we are truly each other's crosses of salvation. This happens in my own marriage all the time. ALL THE TIME. God helps my wife grow in areas that directly challenge me spiritually; areas that many times I am too proud to confront on my own. No biggie. That's why God gave her to me! I'm just glad there is a channel through which God can speak to me when I've tried to turn them all off.

WHITE FLAG

"Sorry babe, the the new Madden
game is out", ain't cutting it.

She shouldn't give up. She needs to continue to pray and work on opening the lines of communication. Marriage is no fun when we have to hide behind the walls of repercussions; especially when they are repercussions for good things we are doing. Sure, if I spend all our money and we cannot buy food, I should expect to hear it from my wife. However, if I simply want to have a respectful conversation about how we are going to raise our kids, the discipline of going to church, and my own spiritual life, I should not fear reprisal. That's just straight-up not cool. Conversely, following Christ requires carrying a cross. The question then becomes, how much are we all willing to suffer for:

and

Peace to you on your journey.

From the Combox...Testing God & Certainty

Mrs. Anonymous is back and with another question (you can find her first two here and here). First, let me say that her questions are always welcome and in her case I take no offense at her hiding under the pseudonym "anonymous". She does not take pot-shots at me under that pseudonym, so I find her even asking a question to be courageous to begin with. She recently asked in the blogger combox [My comments in blue and a full response after]:

"I really enjoy reading your blog and I'm very sorry for being a "Mrs. Anonymous," but I have good reason to be...and it's not for lack of courage, I can assure you. Now, if I were disrespecting you under cover of anonymity, then I could understand your distaste [Normal people understand this]. However, that is not the case with me. I greatly appreciated your post in response to my further questions (sorry I didn't reply to it earlier, but life was busy) [I UNDERSTAND--just glad you are still reading!]. I would like to tell you that I am not sure what to think right now about Catholicism. I find myself being intrigued by, even hoping that, the idea (sorry, but at this point, for me, it's still just an idea) that the Catholic church might actually be all that it claims. However, I don't know how to be sure [question 1]. I've even prayed, "Lord, if this is the Truth, then please draw my husband toward it, too, without my prompting. Then, I'll know for sure." But, then, that would be testing God or asking Him for a sign, would it not [question 2]? I don't want to be like the guy on his roof during a flood who keeps praying for God to save him...you know the story, right? I mean, what if your blog (which sparked my interest) is like the helicopter that God has sent, but then I wave it away saying, "No thanks, when God gives me a sign, it will be more clear..." Perhaps you might say God is drawing me, but if He is, then wouldn't He draw my husband, too? We don't have children yet and I really don't want to raise kids if Mommy is Catholic, but Daddy is Protestant [question 3]."

Wow! What wisdom. I think I may change this blog's name to "Christ's Helicopter for His Church!" (ooh, that would make a nice header) As an aside, one thing I love about pentecostals is that they are spiritually perceptive. You show a lot of wisdom in understanding that God is using the experiences you are even having now to draw you closer to Him. He certainly is. To your questions, for the sake of communicating clearly, I want to break them up into three different ones and then answer them directly:

1. If God is drawing me, wouldn't he be drawing my husband too?

Maybe, but not necessarily. We are all in different places in our lives. God knows the end and the beginning at the same time (Alpha and Omega). When he draws one spouse, he may be drawing them as a means of drawing the other spouse. I obviously do not know in your specific situation. However, I would encourage you to continue to pray and allow this journey to change you for the better. Even though you will know more as it goes on, don't become the "know-it-all". Listen more, and be more attentive to what your husband has to say regarding matters of faith. Don't just look for what he says that you may be learning is not true, but try to find the things that he is affirming or are implicit in his statements that in fact you see are affirmed by the Catholic faith.

That is one of the things I try to do on this blog. Show people that we believe a lot of Catholic "stuff" or that our rejection of certain Catholic notions is a hypocrisy in lieu of other Christian sensibilities we have.

The relevant portion of the Catechism of the Catholic Church says (assuming a "Jesus-only" invalid baptism):

"In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: "For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband." It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this "consecration" should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith.141 Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion." CCC 1637

2. Can I test God?

Easy answer, no (Luke 4:12). I want to qualify this, though. Can you ask God to "help my un-belief"? Of course. How he does that is up to Him. Let's be honest with each other. This whole Catholic thing has got you scared. I know, I was in your shoes. You may be starting to realize that either:

A. The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus Christ, himself, founded

OR

B. She is the great whore from the book of Revelation dragging men and women to hell

If A or B, OH MY!!! Both send spiritual chills down your spine but for opposite reasons. Good, we are on the same page. Asking God to "give you a sign" may not be wrong if what you are asking is "God, help me to see the truth here". God knows your heart, I don't. Be honest with Him--which from your comment appears you already are.

3. How can I know for sure?

This could be an entire post or a series of posts. Instead, I will redact it down so as to make this as easy as possible:

When we say "for sure" we mean certainty. In thinking about certainty, there are two possible answers:

A. A psychological state whereby one cannot be convinced otherwise because there is not a smidgen of doubt

OR

B. We have a reasonable confidence correlative to the type of knowledge we are talking about.

"A" does not exist. We can doubt ANYTHING. Is it rational to doubt anything? Absolutely not, but that is besides the point. We can. Therefore, let's dismiss A and discuss B.

There are different types of knowledge and therefore different types of certainty (you can read more about it here). I won't be exhaustive here, but let's think about three different types of truth claims:

1. If I drop this ball, it will fall to the ground

2. 1 is not, not 1

3. The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded

#1 is a statement of "physics". We can verify this through our sense experience alone (empirical) using reason. Is our understanding of the physical world ever foiled? Sure. Nonetheless, we can have physical certainty about some facts without always living in some type of tension or state of doubt. In other words, if you jump off of a roof, you are certain that you will hit the ground.

#2 is a statement of metaphysics. It flows from both the law of identity (A=A), but ultimately is an expression of the law of non-contradiction (A≠ not A). This simply means (as Blessed Scotus would say), "to be burned and not to be burned are not the same thing". We do not know this by physics but by metaphysics. Hence, if your friend tells you that she has a bank account, you do not then tell your other friend that she does not have a bank account. You don't say this simply because you do not want to lie, but rather that it is a law of thought that governs how we think.

#3 is a moral statement. What I mean is that you or I have to make a judgement, whereas in #1 we follow the cues, and #2 we deny at our own peril. Let's think about number #3 in a different way. How do you know "for sure" that you were born in the city your birth certificate claims? Certainly not in the way you know #1 or #2. So, you have to make a judgement. The Catholic Church has always taught that one can know certain universal characteristics of God through human reason alone (Romans 1:20). Like one would go about identifying the "Founding Fathers", the Catholic Church can be identified as the "Church Jesus founded". Search history and examine for yourself.

What next? If the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded, and Jesus is God-Incarnate, then...

Peace to you on your journey

Reply...Again...Conversion: The Way of the Cross

"Anonymous" replied to my recent post, again using blogger, so for her benefit, yours and mine, I am responding to her recent question on the blog. She said:

"Thank you for answering my question, but it leads to another. What if a husband or wife wishes to convert to Catholicism, but the spouse is unwilling, uninterested or maybe even adamently against it?Particularly, as in the second comment above, what if the wife wishes to convert, but the husband does not. What is she to do in the eyes of the Church? Submit to her husband or go against his wishes, since Christ said we must follow him no matter what or who stands in our way? Can one spouse convert and the other, not? What if (not that it would have been) that had been your situation? Would you have still converted without your wife's joining you? It seems it would be a sticky situation. You are very blessed that she happily joined you, but not everyone has it so easy, especially when the roles are reversed and it is the wife who is considering converting, to her utter personal shock and surprise, I might add. Like you, she too, never imagined (and still hasn't admitted to herself that she is) she would ever consider Catholicism."

First, let me say that I completely understand the sentiment in your last comment. I, too, never dreamed of becoming Catholic. All roads were not conspicuously leading to Rome. I am going to give you two takes on the matter. I asked my wife this question, and here is what she said:

"My gut reaction is convert no matter what....I don't know what I would actually say if I was the one having to respond to this email. It seems to me, though, that converting to Catholicism is as tantamount as becoming a Christian. I would never tell someone to reject becoming a Christian because of marital reasons. Isn't that what the Catholic Church is? Christianity, our Salvation, the way Christ has given us himself on this earth?...."

I love my wife. Her feminine sagacity comes in short thoughts like this that get right to the heart of the matter. For prudential purposes, I would add the following:

• Conversion, even when both are not on the same page, is easier if the existing marriage is solid. Any communication problem you may have will be accentuated by this particular conflict, if you let it.

• Go slow. There is no reason to rush. When you are a catechumen (learning about Catholicism in RCIA), Mother Church calls you Her own. I recommend finding a local parish and starting RCIA. Maybe your husband would go with you? Maybe he would be willing to have a conversation about what you learn? Most importantly, pray about this every day. Ask God for help: in your heart, marriage, mind, in the work He has called you to do as a mother...everything. Pray, pray. and pray again.

• Allow your journey to Catholicism to be a chance to grow closer to God. To be closer to His Church is to be closer to Him. To be closer to Him is to be more like him. Your husband and everyone else will notice. 

• Ask the saints to pray for you, especially Blessed Mary. I know this one probably sounds weird to you at this point. It did to me too. I recommend praying this little prayer I prayed:

Our Mother

"Dear God, if the saints are not in heaven, make them to not hear my prayers. I'm not sure if this is the right thing, but I'm starting to believe that the Catholic Church is the Church you founded. You said that if I ask for bread, you would not give me a scorpion. Well, this is one of those situations. If this is not of You, throw me off this path. I see where it is heading, and I don't want to go there but I'm afraid I will have to unless you throw me off this path. I love you, God."

St. ____________, pray for me.

Amen.

You are in my family's prayers. 

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From the Combox...On the Eucharist

I recently received two comments via blogger on my most recent post and because they were not done in Disqus, they did not show up on the post. Nevertheless, I wanted to respond to both of them. The first question was:

"I was wondering how its been for your wife and if your families have been accepting and supportive."

A: In the beginning it was mixed--to put it mildly. Now, things are better. In fact, I would dare say that some people are on a journey (as we all are). I had one family member buy the Lamb's Supper by Scott Hahn. My wife, of course, joined me on the journey and is a happy Catholic. The thing is, people that know me understand my conversion to Catholicism as a continuity of what has always been a lifelong pursuit of Jesus Christ. I am Catholic because he founded the Catholic Church. No other reason.

The other question was:

"I'm a professed Pentecostal in a state of... Reform? Not really sure about very many things right now except that i feel lost and like I've built my house on sand. My husband was a minister. Certain circumstances have brought us to a point of questioning. I had a thought out of seemingly nowhere the other day: why would a Pentecostal ever convert to Catholicism?! So i googled and came across your conversion story. Wow. You addressed some questions I've raised within myself. And other subjects I had never questioned. Well frankly, I'm at the point of questioning most everything I've ever known regarding religion. I love the experience of the infilling of the Holy Ghost! Yet…I must admit something is missing. There is a void that has not been filled. I never dreamed that I would one day consider Catholicism. I am intrigued by your testimony. Your journey. I have babies. I cannot afford to be in limbo any longer! My husband won't hear of it... Yet, at this point he wants nothing to do with any church and is the most cynical towards the Catholic Church. Please pray for us in our journey! Questions: what about immersion baptism in Jesus' name? The infilling of the Holy Ghost? How do you stand on these subjects now? What has this conversion been like for your wife? I cut my hair months ago. Relief!!! No more struggling with damaged hair and not a single headache since! I'd had regular migraines for years!!! I have prayed and studied about it and feel completely at peace with cutting my hair. I believe we interpret so many things wrong! Anyhow, my two struggles? 1. Am I hindering my husband? He says no, but I still feel concerned about how my actions affect him. 2. People. Judgmental, condemning people. Maybe I'm too prideful and just don't want people upset with me but why ever it is; they get to me! I'll tell you this because it is an example of how i feel about most of the things I am struggling with. Hope i haven't been too mouthy! Just feel a need to ask you those things. Thank you!"

First, you and everyone else considering Catholicism are in my prayers every day. I understand there are so many hurdles to get over when considering Catholicism. As my friend says, "Anti-Catholicism is a tradition of men"; and a hard one to rid at that. For readers that may not understand where the commenter is coming from, it appears she may be a part of a Pentecostal Holiness Church of some sort. Sadly, they may practice "Jesus-only" baptism. I"m not sure.

To her question regarding baptism, I was a Pentecostal who believed in Trinitarian baptism. The mode (or method) of baptism is quite another question, and one that we can tackle a different way. I did a series of posts on baptism you can find here, here, here, here, here and here (read them in that order). You should also read a great post at Catholic Answers entitled "Infant Baptism".

Regarding the gift of the Holy Spirit, as Catholics we believe this gift is given at the Sacrament of Holy Confirmation. It is the official "laying on of hands" that continues in Mother Church to this day. It is one of the 7 Sacraments of the Catholic Church. The Pentecostal or Charismatic baptism of the Holy Spirit is a unique experience and one the Catholic Church affirms as a genuine work of God. I recommend this article by the current papal preacher, Father Raniero Cantalamessa, OFM.

However and to add, I would say that the greatest gift God has for us is found in the Holy Eucharist. It is the Most Blessed Sacrament, the fulfillment of all the Old Testament feasts, the way our Lord gives himself fully and freely to His bride until He comes again, and is the great mystery of the faith (the internet does not have enough words to describe our Lord in the Most Blessed Sacrament).

Our Blessed Lord said as much in John 6:48-68:

"I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them,

"Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?" Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

_____________________________________________________

To whom shall we go?

Peace to you on your journey...